Less Celtic, More Rangers

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dings of Prof. Bryan Sykes’ group, as I understand it, with the large proviso that they differ with respect to the Celtic contribution – or what counts as Celtic:

Everyone has heard of Celts, Anglo-Saxons and Vikings. And most of us are familiar with the idea that the English are descended from Anglo-Saxons, who invaded eastern England after the Romans left, while most of the people in the rest of the British Isles derive from indigenous Celtic ancestors with a sprinkling of Viking blood around the fringes.

Yet there is no agreement among historians or archaeologists on the meaning of the words “Celtic” or “Anglo-Saxon.” What is more, new evidence from genetic analysis (see note below) indicates that the Anglo-Saxons and Celts, to the extent that they can be defined genetically, were both small immigrant minorities. Neither group had much more impact on the British Isles gene pool than the Vikings, the Normans or, indeed, immigrants of the past 50 years.

This is odd, though:

The genetic evidence shows that three quarters of our ancestors came to this corner of Europe as hunter-gatherers, between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago, after the melting of the ice caps but before the land broke away from the mainland and divided into islands.

This implies that there were two separate geological processes involved – the melting of the ice-caps, and the movement of the land-masses. But the latter – tectonic plates and all that – occurs over a much larger time-scale than a few thousand years. All that’s been happening as far as Britain’s connection to the European mainland is concerned, in the time-scales we’re talking about, is that the sea-level’s varied according to the state of the ice-caps.

Whatever, it’s interesting stuff – including the idea that the pre-Roman population of Britain may not have spoken a Celtic language, as is generally assumed:

So who were the Britons inhabiting England at the time of the Roman invasion? The history of pre-Roman coins in southern Britain reveals an influence from Belgic Gaul. The tribes of England south of the Thames and along the south coast during Caesar’s time all had Belgic names or affiliations. Caesar tells us that these large intrusive settlements had replaced an earlier British population, which had retreated to the hinterland of southeast England. The latter may have been the large Celtic tribe, the Catuvellauni, situated in the home counties north of the Thames. Tacitus reported that between Britain and Gaul “the language differs but little.”

The common language referred to by Tacitus was probably not Celtic, but was similar to that spoken by the Belgae, who may have been a Germanic people, as implied by Caesar. In other words, a Germanic-type language could already have been indigenous to England at the time of the Roman invasion. In support of this inference, there is some recent lexical (vocabulary) evidence analysed by Cambridge geneticist Peter Forster and continental colleagues. They found that the date of the split between old English and continental Germanic languages goes much further back than the dark ages, and that English may have been a separate, fourth branch of the Germanic language before the Roman invasion.

Comments

  1. dearieme Avatar
    dearieme

    “broke away” is an error. I’m struck by the accuracy implicitly claimed in “Scotland and its associated islands 30 per cent, while eastern and southern England, being nearer the continent, has received one third of its population from outside over the past 6,500 years.” He can distinguish 30% from 33%? Otherwise, it’s rather plausible. It’s easier to get here by walking, but agriculture must have arrived by boat. Neolithic immigration must have been easier than in the Dark Ages since the neolithic invaders face only a low-density hunter-gatherer population. Once the latter people have also taken up agriculture, both lots have thousands of years to multiply before the Dark Ages. I’ve always assumed that Scandinavians would have arrived over a longer, earlier period rather than just the Viking Age, because the spring easterlies have presumably blown for thousands of years. However, though DNA science is wonderful stuff, it can’t tell us about language and culture. I find it easy to believe that Celtic language and culture spread as part of a religious movement, like Islam and Arabic. But perhaps with only a few missionaries involved. Anyway, thanks for the link. Presumably new facts about the fine structure of “us” will emerge in the next decade. And perhaps someday someone will work out how exactly our neolithic ancestors cleared the wildwood so that they could grow crops.

  2. E. JAkeman Avatar
    E. JAkeman

    sit (447/448) was shortly after the withdrawal of the field army commanded by Gallio. (This visit is another date that has been moved around (“corrected”) by insular “scholars,” attempting to make their model fit.) This may have been in concert Aetius, commander of the western armies, as Germanus had been a military officer before his career in the church. Sure enough, he would lead troops into battle against the Irish, not Saxons as stated by his biographer.) This was fought inside northern Wales. Instead of rivers of blood, the Gildas work claims, he found nothing amiss, except for raids, emanating from Wales.
    The Catholic Encyclopedia states this. “Britain was abandoned in 446.” Others put this at 448, and there is reason to accept this. At any rate, they were recalled to meet the threat of Attila the Hun before 450. This can be said to be when the real break began, although no one at the time thought so. They, the Britains, in the year 450 were still a part of that empire. There had been no Saxon Advent. (Nor would there be one. The real menace was not from across the channel, or even the north, although it was a cause of much chaos. It was the Irish, who also controlled Wales, Cornwall, and parts of Devon.) They were still a somewhat loyal part of the fading empire, such as it was. In the Year 470, an army from Britain would cross the English Channel to assist the Emperor Anthemius. This is explicitly stated as “The Sea Valley.” This is a name for the English Channel, period. This reference cannot be ignored. Many do by using some other source not mentioning that, but that one also said they arrived by way of the ocean, then spin a story more to their liking.
    Dr Richard Cox in a lecture in 1999 at the University of Aberdeen sent shock waves through the research community. The discovery put an end to any mystery surrounding the Pictish language. This unlocked the secret of writing on standing stones, which has baffled scholars for hundreds of years. Their inscriptions only make sense if read in Old Norse. There was some variance; the Picts pronounced the letter W (usually) as the letter F. Further research will shed more light on this.
    The inscriptions are written in ogam, a writing system used to write Gaelic in Ireland, however no one had been able to make sense of the inscriptions in Scotland. The tunnel vision first showing up in the 19th century insisting they were Celts and disregarding the traditions that had gotten in the way. No way could the writing be tied to any insular language. By using Old Norse, the inscriptions can be translated. There had been a variety of dialects of that. Denmark had three, by itself. This appears as another. Many these monuments were memorials, recording who it was that carved the stone and in whose memory it was erected. All are intelligible and lucid; this is no mistake, anymore than Linear B was Greek. (The difficulty in discovering this is seen also in the fact that at one time Gauls adopted the Etruscan alphabet, this was unsatisfactory as it was unsuitable for their language. Some use was also attempted with Greek letters. Likewise the Celtiberian in Spain adopted an Iberian script, with the same problem; it was solved by both by later adopting the Latin alphabet.) The Picts were also known to have kept libraries. Unfortunately, these were destroyed in the Viking age, but not by Vikings. The Picts were Christian, but not catholic. In addition, there was a bitter rivalry between the “Celtic” and Pict sects. So responsibility may never be known.

  3. E. Jakeman Avatar
    E. Jakeman

    outh in the last glacial maxim are wrong. (Politically correct or not.)
    Getting away from the subject for a moment, just to show how dishonest things can be I will mention this. The tests to prove Neanderthals were not human is a particular farce, see http://www.ridgenet.net/~do_while/sage/v1i12n.htm What happened was that they kept getting testing results saying human, in one run it was 11 out of 11. (It was admitted they were trying to prove a non-human result, so far it was spectacular, if they had been trying to prove they were, as many have asserted, and still do, that they were indeed human. (Lets see, they buried their dead with grave goods, cared for their infirm, they made jewelry, and they made musical instruments, a flute reconstruction showed they used the same scale as us, to the critics, Discover magazine had a front cover with a collection on it.) It was only when they used primers that would not react with human DNA that they were they able to get the results wanted. (Of course had they used their own DNA with those primers they, the researchers, would have tested as non-human. (I propose Homo Ignoramus.) See also http://www.aulis.com/news12.htm (this applies to the English as well).
    Further, different research is saying that the out of Africa theory is/was nonsense. The most damning evidence coming from China, proving there are people with no African genes (at least in the last million years) walking around today. Until that theory (out of Africa) research said archaic humans (us, we are the descendants) were in Europe for hundreds of thousands of years. What was that based on? Speculations only, as in out of thin air. It was always problematical: research is burying it. When first propose as is; it was labeled as politically correct non-sense, the critics are appearing to have the last laugh. Did you know that an entire village (surpassingly sophisticated) from 350,000 years ago has been excavated in what is now the north of Germany? It was almost hilarious to read how it, the following was attempted to be explained away. “The U.P. (Upper-Paleolithic) Race is also about 400,000 years old, whereas the rest of the human beings on earth can only be traced back about 100,000 years.” (Others dispute even that. In any event this was not the only people in Europe at the time.) This is associated with the Brunn-Borreby types, and non-African. “This has been proven because they can trace what’s called “vCJDr.” A team headed by Prof. John Collinge at the Institute of Neurological Science at London University conducted the genetic survey. This just scratches the surface.

  4. John Raciti Avatar

    I’m related to Anglo-Saxon, Anglo Norman, Gaelic, Brythonic Celtic people.
    My DNA brethren are Irish, Scottish, English, German, Norwegian, Swedish, Welsh, Dutch.
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=848798&l=d45cc&id=576992202

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