Poisoning Trust

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It’s difficult not to agree with David Aaronovitch:

[Y]ou can see that it could sometimes be true that torture gets results. For every ten duff confessions you might get a really useful admission, just as for every five detainees you might be holding one very dangerous terrorist. Who knows? You won’t find, I would suggest, anywhere in history a torturer — deploying any of the San Gimignano devices — who didn’t think that he was doing it for the best.

Good old-fashioned disastrous realpolitik would suggest that we turn aside while torture happens. If, in the short term, we have a chance of extracting a few key names, places and plans, then lives may be saved and we should let the renderers rend. It is precisely the same logic that led to us trade smiles and Sandhurst places with Middle Eastern dictators for years. It seemed more politic for us to support our bastards — and never mind the democracy.

But as McCain puts it now, we are in “a war of ideas, a struggle to advance freedom in the face of terror in places where oppressive rule has bred the malevolence that creates terrorists”. And we fight it — always, always, always — by being as little like those oppressors as we can possibly be. Even if torture works.

Apart from the (overwhelming) moral considerations against the use of torture, there’s also the simple point that in democracies with a free press, the use of torture is always, eventually, going to be exposed, and the damage from that exposure will always outweigh any supposed benefits from information extracted under pressure. Plus, it will always create a gap between government and governed: no regime is going to come out and admit, yes we use torture, yes, this piece of information was obtained from an individual who had been subjected to repeated waterboarding. It’s like capital punishment, in that it’s always going to poison everyone involved. But at least the debates about capital punishment, and in the US the procedures that lead up to it, are conducted in the open. Torture by its nature is always going to be clandestine, so it poisons trust as well. No democratic society is going to have signs up in its prisons: this way to the Physiotherapy Unit, this way to the canteen, this way to the Forced Information Extraction Unit. So…we shouldn’t do it.

Comments

  1. Ian Avatar
    Ian

    We have to consider two things:
    (a) information extracted under torture for the purpose of sealing evidence for conviction of either the tortured or someone else, is different from information needed to prevent loss of life and which is needed quickly.
    Whilst I’d fully agree that torture should not be used to extract evidence that may be used in court (for example extracting a confession or implicating an associate), I am doubtful as to its use if lives can be saved (for example finding out where the bomb is hidden).
    (b) What actually constitutes “torture” ? Few people would disagree with the definition involving physical harm, which would certainly include drugs and sensory overloading (loud noise), even sleep deprevation, but what of the non-physical ?
    The old method of “Mr Nice and Mr Nasty”, is that “torture” ? What about appealing to religious sensitivities or cultural taboos ?

  2. Cyrus Avatar

    ng is part of the equipment God gives us for dealing with a broken, sinful world. We have to use it, recognizing that we are not going to do so infallibly and that it is not always going to allow us to keep our hands clean.
    And on that inconclusive and very uncomfortable note I end. Comments please.

  3. Mick H Avatar
    Mick H

    That’s a powerful argument, but I don’t believe that a refusal to use torture commits one to pacifism – which I think is what you’re saying. I think there’s something specifically evil about torture which doesn’t apply to cases of wartime barbarity supposedly in a good cause, as for instance the bombing of Dresden. It’s difficult to explain, but I think Andrew Sullivan does a pretty good job in his New Republic article – http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20051219&s=sullivan121905
    “What you see in the relationship between torturer and tortured is the absolute darkness of totalitarianism. You see one individual granted the most complete power he can ever hold over another. Not just confinement of his mobility–the abolition of his very agency. Torture uses a person’s body to remove from his own control his conscience, his thoughts, his faith, his selfhood.”

  4. Cyrus Avatar

    There’s a gut reaction level on which I would agree that being tortured is the worst thing that could happen to me – worse even than being killed. But on a rational level surely the power of life and death has to be ‘the most complete power’ anyone can hold over me. Or do our gut reactions here reflect a culture in which freedom from pain is seen as a higher good than life itself – as moves towards tolerance of ‘mercy killing’ (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/southern_counties/4350153.stm) would tend to suggest?
    If rejection of torture is to be taken as an absolute it has to hold in the most extreme case. Imagine that al Qaida has acquired an atom bomb, and you have the job of interrogating an al Q member who knows where it is and where and when it is to be exploded… Of course you may want to say that torture would probably not be effective, but that has nothing to do with the issue of principle.
    Still no answers, only questions.

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